Transcript
[00:00] 30 days into the 60-day experiment, I
[00:02] wasn’t getting very many views.
[00:03] Normally, I would have given up by then,
[00:04] but the whole goal, again, wasn’t views
[00:06] or subscriber counts. It was to count
[00:08] uploads, not views.
[00:11] >> Right now, you’re getting 12 million
[00:13] views per day on YouTube Shorts.
[00:15] >> And climbing. Day 35 rolls around. One
[00:18] of those videos hits 750,000
[00:21] views. All those previous videos all
[00:24] started to climb as well. When a person
[00:26] says, “I’m too busy to do this,” is it’s
[00:27] just not a priority for you.
[00:28] >> Total time every day it takes then right
[00:30] now?
[00:30] >> 20 minutes, cuz I’ll open a pack, right?
[00:32] >> And hitting it on every platform.
[00:34] >> And hitting it on on every platform.
[00:35] >> Oh my goodness.
[00:37] One of the biggest opportunities for
[00:39] growing a following right now is YouTube
[00:41] Shorts and short-form content. And we
[00:43] have really the leading expert on the
[00:45] podcast today breaking [music] down
[00:47] tactics, breaking down the mindset, the
[00:48] philosophy. So, if you want to get
[00:51] views, if you want to grow subscribers,
[00:53] and if you also want to earn more money
[00:54] in your online business or get known if
[00:56] you’re starting from zero, lock in
[00:58] because this podcast with Pat Flynn is
[01:01] an absolute game-changer.
[01:02] >> Pat Flynn is an entrepreneur, author,
[01:04] and content creator who’s built millions
[01:06] of subscribers and generated billions of
[01:07] views across his platforms. And today,
[01:09] he’s breaking down how you can apply the
[01:11] lessons he’s learned to grow your own
[01:12] brand.
[01:13] >> Pat Flynn, right now, you’re getting 12
[01:16] million views per day on YouTube Shorts.
[01:18] >> And climbing.
[01:19] >> It’s crazy.
[01:19] >> And climbing.
[01:20] >> It’s crazy.
[01:21] >> And this is on a new channel that you
[01:22] started just a year and a half ago.
[01:23] >> Yes.
[01:24] >> So, I need to know all your secrets, all
[01:26] the things you’ve never shared, and your
[01:28] whole short-form playbook.
[01:29] >> I’m ready, man.
[01:30] >> But first, tell tell me the story. What
[01:32] is this channel? What’s the vision? How
[01:34] did it start?
[01:35] >> Yeah, so I have a Pokémon YouTube
[01:36] channel that was all long-form. In fact,
[01:38] I was here at this event a couple years
[01:39] ago and talked about how short-form is
[01:41] kind of a waste of time, right? You
[01:42] can’t build a relationship 60 seconds in
[01:44] in just 60 seconds, but I was wrong.
[01:46] You can do that
[01:48] if 60 seconds happens every day, right?
[01:51] Across an entire month, that’s a whole
[01:52] half hour of time with somebody, and
[01:54] you’re building a routine, you’re
[01:55] building a habit of showing up daily.
[01:57] And if you can do it right, you become a
[01:58] part of a person’s daily routine, and
[02:01] you show up in ways that you never
[02:02] thought possible. So, although I had a
[02:05] long-form channel already, it would have
[02:06] made sense for me to just insert shorts
[02:08] into that channel, but again, I wanted
[02:09] to experiment, and myself, I always use
[02:11] myself as a case study to try to teach
[02:13] other people. So, I created a separate
[02:15] channel, didn’t link to it from anything
[02:17] I had, didn’t even put my face on it,
[02:19] and it was just the whole goal was to go
[02:21] 60 days of opening a pack of Pokémon
[02:23] cards daily, and I recorded the
[02:25] voiceovers after, and whether it’s a
[02:26] good card at the end or a bad card, I
[02:28] always just shared anyway. You know, a
[02:29] lot of other creators, they’ll only show
[02:31] the good hits, but I wanted to be
[02:32] relatable. That was a big part of this.
[02:34] The R word, relatable, is so important
[02:36] today because everything is so fake and
[02:38] manufactured, right? So, I said, “Okay,
[02:40] no matter what happens, I’m just going
[02:41] to go daily.” 30 days into the 60-day
[02:43] experiment,
[02:44] I wasn’t getting very many views.
[02:46] Normally, I would have given up by then,
[02:48] cuz I’m like, “Oh, this is not working.”
[02:49] But the whole goal, again, wasn’t views
[02:50] or subscriber counts, it was to count
[02:52] uploads, not views.
[02:54] >> Mhm.
[02:55] >> buddy Alex says. And so, day 35 comes
[02:57] around. Now, by the way, day 30,
[02:59] although I didn’t get a lot of views,
[03:00] there were a lot of things that were
[03:01] already happening. My editing time for
[03:03] these videos went from 45 minutes per
[03:05] video
[03:06] to about 15.
[03:08] >> How’d you do that? Go deeper on that.
[03:09] >> Just the more you do something, the more
[03:11] you learn how to be more efficient with
[03:12] it and optimize that. I learned the
[03:14] shortcuts. I started to build a library
[03:15] of all the sound effects and all those
[03:17] kinds of things. The other thing that
[03:18] was really helpful in this case versus
[03:20] the other experiments that I tried on
[03:21] TikTok and in Reels and in Facebook is
[03:24] that I had a format that was repeatable.
[03:27] I had a structure, and I made it
[03:29] episodic, and that is the secret. The
[03:31] secret is in the series.
[03:34] In fact, this even goes back to the
[03:35] first time I really got interested in in
[03:37] in a weird TikTok, and it was this guy
[03:40] named um a guy kicking rocks,
[03:44] or guy who kicks rocks, I think is the
[03:45] name of the channel.
[03:47] I saw a video, and it was literally a
[03:48] guy just kicking a rock and said, “Day
[03:50] one of kicking a rock until it becomes a
[03:52] sphere.
[03:53] I was like, this is the stupidest thing.
[03:55] Little did I know, 60 days later I was
[03:57] watching this thing transform and I was
[03:59] so emotionally invested in this rock
[04:01] becoming a sphere and he would kind of
[04:02] track its weight and all this stuff and
[04:04] it’s just like, what is happening here?
[04:05] Why am I so interested in this? It’s
[04:07] because there was something to look
[04:08] forward to, because there was
[04:09] anticipation, because I wanted to see
[04:11] what the end result was. And that’s
[04:13] something I wasn’t incorporating into my
[04:14] previous shorts, but this time, I mean,
[04:16] kind of inherently in a pack of Pokémon
[04:17] cards there is a mystery in each one.
[04:20] You don’t know what you’re going to get.
[04:21] So, that was kind of helping me. But
[04:22] [snorts] again, I wanted to continue to
[04:24] try to get to 60 days. Also, by day 30,
[04:27] I had 30 pieces of data from 30 previous
[04:31] uploads to tell me, well, what kind of
[04:32] worked and maybe what didn’t. What could
[04:34] I
[04:34] >> Such as?
[04:34] >> Such as, I noticed that when I was in
[04:36] person at a card shop and I had that
[04:40] transaction to purchase the pack that I
[04:42] was going to then open, those videos
[04:44] often performed a lot better because
[04:46] there was something different. Most
[04:48] people would just start at their desk.
[04:49] Me, I was starting in an interaction and
[04:51] you were kind of there with me as it was
[04:53] happening. And then we go and see if it
[04:54] was worth how much I ever spent.
[04:56] Usually, by the way, spoiler alert, it’s
[04:58] not worth it to open it, but it’s
[04:59] entertaining and and it’s fun and I love
[05:01] Pokémon and and and deep in that space.
[05:03] Day 35 rolls around.
[05:05] One of those videos hits 750,000
[05:10] views. Kind of just
[05:12] I mean, it wasn’t like anything drastic
[05:13] that I changed. It just so happened to
[05:14] catch that day and it did incorporate
[05:16] those changes that I made previously. It
[05:17] was done in a card shop and I, you know,
[05:19] started to get familiar with getting
[05:21] quicker to the hook and retaining
[05:23] people. 750,000 views. All those
[05:25] previous videos all started to climb as
[05:28] well because a person would find that
[05:30] new one and then they’d go back and find
[05:33] the older one.
[05:33] >> And it’s very scrollable. It actually is
[05:35] a short show you could watch daily, but
[05:36] you also could binge the show
[05:38] >> right.
[05:39] >> really easy.
[05:39] >> And people were telling me they were
[05:40] doing that.
[05:41] After a couple days later, they said,
[05:42] I’ve watched every single one of these.
[05:44] I want I can’t wait till tomorrow,
[05:46] right? And that is the secret to growing
[05:47] followers and subscribers
[05:49] on these channels. It’s
[05:51] what happens next. I wasn’t providing
[05:53] that to opportunity to wonder what was
[05:55] going to happen next or that curiosity
[05:56] before. This time it was baked into
[05:57] this.
[05:58] And then by day 60, I was like, “Okay,
[06:00] I’m going to keep going with this.” And
[06:01] today I’m on day 647
[06:05] straight.
[06:06] And we are seeing about 12 million views
[06:08] per day across all platforms cuz it’s
[06:09] not just YouTube Shorts anymore. I take
[06:11] that same video
[06:13] and I publish it on Instagram as a reel.
[06:15] And that same video also goes on now
[06:17] Facebook. It also goes on TikTok. It
[06:20] also goes on Snapchat. And across all of
[06:23] those platforms, it’s funny because
[06:24] sometimes a video will do really well on
[06:25] one and kind of not perform extra well
[06:28] in the others.
[06:29] Sometimes it goes well in all of them
[06:30] and sometimes it bombs. But that’s the
[06:33] cool thing about Shorts and short-form.
[06:35] Every day is like a new opportunity,
[06:38] right? Whereas before, especially with
[06:40] long-form video and I’m creating one
[06:41] video per month or one video every other
[06:43] week, it’s like if you miss on that
[06:44] video, you kind of have to wait a while
[06:46] till you get another chance. Not to
[06:48] mention you were slower to collect that
[06:50] data that then tells you what’s working
[06:51] and what’s not. So that’s why for
[06:53] anybody starting any short-form content,
[06:55] I say go daily because that’s going to
[06:57] teach you faster what’s working and
[06:58] what’s not. I wrote about that sort of
[07:00] effort in my book Lean Learning. You
[07:01] just like the learning comes from the
[07:02] action you take. So in the world of
[07:03] content, publish faster. You’ll learn
[07:06] faster. You know, you can adjust.
[07:07] There’s very little risk in publishing a
[07:09] video that bombs because you have
[07:11] tomorrow and then the next day and the
[07:12] next day. And then over time optimizing
[07:15] the storytelling within these 60-second
[07:17] videos. Actually, I think a big thing
[07:18] that happened was I took a lot of my
[07:19] podcasting brain and my kind of episodic
[07:22] show brain and put it into this series.
[07:25] And I created a little jingle at the
[07:26] beginning. And it’s should I open it or
[07:29] should I keep it sealed? Very inspired
[07:31] by like the Empire theme song or you
[07:33] know, all those like little old 50s kind
[07:36] of jingles.
[07:37] Um shout out to Music Radio Creative, by
[07:39] the way. I gave them that tune. It’s
[07:40] it’s a audio file that nobody will have
[07:42] ever hear cuz it’s terrible, but they
[07:44] made it sound great after my after my
[07:45] little wave file I gave them.
[07:48] Uh and that is at the beginning. So,
[07:50] I flip the pack in 1 second. Should I
[07:52] open it or should I keep it sealed? A
[07:54] question that I now propose to the
[07:56] viewer that sticks them around that
[07:58] keeps them stuck to wonder, well, should
[08:00] you have opened this or
[08:01] >> Totally.
[08:02] >> Right? So, so the long-form storytelling
[08:04] that I’ve learned is now shortened and
[08:07] compacted into a 60-second
[08:09] >> And the show name itself, the concept
[08:11] itself, the idea itself is a question
[08:14] that creates tension.
[08:15] >> Yes, and it’s a question that a lot of
[08:17] collectors ask ourselves all the time.
[08:20] But, it’s also relatable for anybody
[08:21] who’s maybe not even into Pokémon.
[08:23] That’s the other thing. It hits a
[08:23] general audience because it’s so quick
[08:26] that you’re not, quote unquote, wasting
[08:27] time watching somebody open Pokémon, but
[08:29] it opens a question that then I deliver
[08:31] on and that and and I yield that result
[08:33] for them at the very end. Right? The the
[08:36] the secret is in the series and and I
[08:38] have an acronym. It’s it’s easy. Right?
[08:40] It’s episodic, it’s authentic, right?
[08:43] Just like right now. You’re you’re
[08:44] seeing me struggle with this, but it’s
[08:45] real life. Um it is something that is
[08:47] structured. So, that format again makes
[08:49] it very easy for me. I know what
[08:51] tomorrow’s going to be like because it’s
[08:53] the same video, just a different pack
[08:54] every time. It’s the same structure.
[08:55] People are expecting
[08:57] that. And then uh why? It yields a
[09:01] result.
[09:01] >> I got so many questions and so many
[09:03] strategies to get into, but
[09:05] first, for listeners that
[09:09] would be like, okay, cool. I want to
[09:10] follow that format, but I’m in
[09:13] insurance, I’m in real estate, I’m an
[09:15] online marketer,
[09:17] you know, I’m a coach. What would you
[09:19] recommend? How could that look or how
[09:21] has that looked for anybody you coach?
[09:22] If you give a couple examples. If we
[09:24] just now get stuck, like I see the idea,
[09:26] but you’re tapping into giant IP,
[09:28] Pokémon, and you you tap into a lot of
[09:31] deserves all the respect in the world,
[09:32] but there’s a certain level of scale to
[09:34] it. So, what is the format to get
[09:37] business owner, entrepreneur, or content
[09:40] creator all the way to their concept for
[09:42] what they might do daily for short form?
[09:44] >> I got you. So, you want to think about
[09:46] what is your target audience? Cuz that’s
[09:48] important. You don’t just kind of create
[09:49] randomly. Cuz it’s one thing to go go
[09:51] viral and get millions of views, but
[09:52] then like so what?
[09:53] >> Yeah.
[09:54] >> Right? So, for your target audience,
[09:56] think about what is a goal that they
[09:58] have. What is an urge that they that
[09:59] they that they have? Um and how do you
[10:02] reverse engineer that into a challenge
[10:04] or a series? Right? For example, I know
[10:06] somebody who’s teaching people uh how to
[10:08] public speak.
[10:10] So, he’s got students of his
[10:13] recording themselves daily talking to
[10:15] the camera, and the hook is day one of
[10:19] speaking or of trying to learn how to be
[10:21] a public speaker without any filler
[10:22] words.
[10:23] >> Mhm.
[10:23] >> Day two, day three. And it gives you
[10:25] something to look back on to see like
[10:27] >> And is he the speaker or he’s got videos
[10:28] of his students?
[10:29] >> Okay.
[10:29] >> But he’s got his students there, and
[10:30] then he gives a tip at the end, right?
[10:32] Whereas traditionally, a person who is
[10:34] maybe teaching that would start a video
[10:36] by saying, “Hey, my name is so-and-so.
[10:37] I’m a professional speaker, and I’m
[10:38] going to give you a tip on how to be a
[10:40] better public speaker and remove filler
[10:41] words.” And then they go and like by
[10:43] then, people are gone.
[10:44] >> Yeah, that’s such a long
[10:45] >> Right?
[10:46] >> Yeah.
[10:46] >> Start the video in the middle of the
[10:48] story.
[10:49] >> Mhm.
[10:50] >> That is the big secret with educational
[10:51] content. Don’t set it up. Just go right
[10:54] into it. So, already you’re seeing
[10:56] somebody going through a transformation
[10:57] and maybe struggling cuz it’s in the
[10:59] early days. Or especially with that
[11:01] hook, it’s like, “Well, let me see. Are
[11:03] you going to add any filler words
[11:04] today?”
[11:04] >> I don’t know.
[11:05] >> Yeah.
[11:05] >> So, now I’m stuck, and I’m going to
[11:07] stick to the end because I’m going to
[11:08] see if this person’s doing what they say
[11:09] they’re going to do. And then the
[11:11] educator comes in at the end and says,
[11:13] “Oh, you did a good job.” and those
[11:14] kinds of things, right? So, that’s a
[11:15] really cool way to feature a student to
[11:17] then come in with some education in the
[11:19] middle of a story that it that builds.
[11:21] Right? And then after 30 days, they they
[11:23] can go back to the content from day one
[11:26] and go, “Here’s how much you’ve
[11:27] improved.”
[11:28] >> Yeah.
[11:28] >> And now, of course, with any marketers,
[11:30] we want to show the transformation. It
[11:32] just took 60-second spurts for 30 days
[11:34] to show it versus one long video which
[11:36] people don’t have the time and attention
[11:38] for.
[11:38] >> Interesting. So,
[11:40] I’m curious. Your story is so cool, but
[11:44] you went in with a lot of clarity. It
[11:46] became like a second channel. You
[11:47] started multiple YouTube channels.
[11:48] You’ve got the whole Smart Passive
[11:50] Income business side of things you’ve
[11:51] all done. This whole new era you’re like
[11:53] taking over the Pokémon world. You have
[11:56] your long-form channel. You start your
[11:57] short-form channel. You go into it
[11:58] though with the name of the show.
[12:00] >> I didn’t No. Oh, you didn’t? No.
[12:03] >> So,
[12:03] >> 6 days to to discover the short I open
[12:06] it format.
[12:07] >> So, what did you name You named it all
[12:09] short pocket monster?
[12:11] >> Yeah, cuz I have deep pocket monster
[12:12] which is my main channel.
[12:13] >> the same brand.
[12:14] >> And then it was like, well, these are
[12:15] shorts
[12:16] >> related to that.
[12:17] >> I’m kind of short.
[12:18] >> Got it. So, so the channel name the show
[12:21] name was discovered actually after some
[12:22] experimentation. 6 days you’re figuring
[12:24] it out. Uh but I guess my question is
[12:28] how would you recommend somebody who
[12:30] already they have their pre-existing
[12:32] social media or accounts? Maybe their
[12:34] channel is named Pat Flynn, their first
[12:36] and last name Sean Cannell. And I’m
[12:39] seeing some people do like 100 days. So,
[12:41] also maybe like I don’t know if I want
[12:42] to commit to this for 655 days of the
[12:44] same show. Do you recommend like spurts
[12:47] of common themes to open loops and close
[12:50] them?
[12:50] >> a that’s a great idea and often what I
[12:51] recommend because, you know, you don’t
[12:53] want to commit forever. And again, I
[12:54] didn’t know I was going to do this for
[12:55] this long. Just so happened that it
[12:57] worked after the 60-day experiment. But
[12:59] you do need to give something an amount
[13:00] of time. And the time is a tool that can
[13:04] help you and your audience know again
[13:06] what’s coming and and what to do at
[13:07] least within that certain time frame.
[13:09] So, perhaps you wanted to try to lose
[13:11] weight, for example. Like and and then
[13:13] I’m going to I’m going to I’m going to
[13:14] work out every day for 30 days. Come
[13:16] follow me on this transformation. But
[13:18] again, you don’t start by saying that.
[13:20] You were literally on the treadmill
[13:22] sweating.
[13:23] All right, guys. I’m going to be I don’t
[13:25] know. This is
[13:26] People are very bumpy on [snorts] on my
[13:27] treadmill. But you know you’re in the
[13:28] middle of the story what’s happening and
[13:29] then now I have to to see what’s what
[13:32] this person’s going to do right it could
[13:33] be something like that something
[13:35] transformational it could be kicking
[13:36] rocks right whatever it is
[13:39] you just have to do it for a period of
[13:40] time and let your audience know that
[13:42] you’re going to be
[13:43] you know documenting this journey.
[13:45] >> So we’ve helped thousands of people go
[13:46] full-time on YouTube here at Think Media
[13:49] and one of the things we discovered from
[13:50] analyzing their channels is that there’s
[13:52] five stages of YouTube success. So our
[13:55] team got together and we actually
[13:57] created a free resource you can check it
[13:59] out at mycreatorquiz.com
[14:02] and what it does is it will walk you
[14:03] through a series of questions that will
[14:05] get you fierce clarity on where you’re
[14:07] at on YouTube right now what’s holding
[14:10] you back and what you need to do next to
[14:14] unlock that next level of views and
[14:16] subscribers. So it only takes about
[14:18] three minutes it’s entirely free just go
[14:20] to mycreatorquiz.com
[14:22] or click the link in the show notes. All
[14:24] right let’s dive back into the podcast.
[14:26] >> Are you a proponent of starting fresh
[14:30] channels if somebody’s debating if they
[14:32] want to start a new channel or not you
[14:35] started a second channel?
[14:36] >> I did for experimental purposes because
[14:38] I knew if I put it on my existing
[14:39] channel people would go well this is
[14:40] only successful because your other one.
[14:42] What’s really funny is I started the
[14:43] second one and that one is now out
[14:45] performing the long form in terms of
[14:47] views and subscribers were at 2.7
[14:50] million subscribers now in a year and a
[14:51] half
[14:52] 2.2 on the long form one it’s different
[14:54] audiences though. There there there is
[14:56] some overlap but there is a large number
[14:58] of people a large population who do not
[15:01] even know I have a long form channel.
[15:02] >> Interesting and that makes sense.
[15:04] >> Because there are people who will only
[15:05] consume the short form stuff.
[15:07] Right and this is really really
[15:08] important to understand the content
[15:11] especially for educators who have long
[15:12] form content you take these clips out
[15:13] and right you’re trying to get people to
[15:15] watch these clips and then subscribe to
[15:16] the bigger thing at the long form
[15:18] podcast whatever it might be that is the
[15:20] wrong way to think about why you do
[15:22] those clips. You do those clips because
[15:24] you’re able to now get parts of your
[15:25] show in front of people who would have
[15:26] never listened to the full thing
[15:27] otherwise. Who who who can discover you
[15:30] from that clip, right? The content is in
[15:32] the clips now. When I get recognized in
[15:35] public now,
[15:36] most of the time it’s like, “I I watch
[15:37] your shorts.” Not the longs.
[15:39] >> But hang on though,
[15:40] are you doing shorts of your long-form
[15:43] videos as well?
[15:44] >> Uh
[15:45] I am now. I am now. So, like any special
[15:47] moment
[15:48] >> What do you mean by the content is in
[15:49] the clips? Meaning the special moments
[15:51] of long-form content is where people
[15:53] could discover you, but your show of
[15:54] opening packs is different than that.
[15:56] >> It’s different than that. Yeah, I just
[15:57] went on a tangent for those who maybe
[16:00] have an opportunity to do short-form
[16:01] with
[16:02] pulling from existing long-form content.
[16:04] >> And and the big idea is that if we want
[16:06] to reach new people and strangers,
[16:08] strangers need like a low
[16:10] commitment. That’s why 30 seconds.
[16:13] That’s why these short-form This it
[16:14] gives And And if you do it well at
[16:17] scale,
[16:18] not everyone’s going to move over, but
[16:19] it’s a chance for them to get to know
[16:21] you.
[16:21] >> For sure. And again, they wouldn’t have
[16:22] found you otherwise. You have that
[16:24] content already. You could publish a
[16:26] clip daily and maybe use a tool like
[16:29] ManyChat to grab those people who are
[16:31] interested in what you have to offer and
[16:33] on the platform to email or something.
[16:36] Yeah.
[16:36] >> Exactly.
[16:36] >> Okay, so I’m curious if you were to do a
[16:39] case study with your advice, algorithmic
[16:41] advice to me, and I think that every
[16:43] listener
[16:44] I’m shocked how much I get this
[16:45] question. It happens a lot. Okay, Sean,
[16:48] I already have a YouTube channel. It’s
[16:49] been 3 years. It’s been 5 years. It’s
[16:51] been 10 years. I haven’t really done
[16:52] anything with it. The channel’s maybe
[16:53] kind of confused. And And do I start a
[16:57] new channel? I’ve already uploaded 400
[16:59] videos on the other channel though, and
[17:00] I started it. Do I start it there? And
[17:02] then my traditional advice is kind of
[17:03] like, well, if you were going to start,
[17:05] you you were doing like gardening
[17:08] channel and now you’ve moved into real
[17:10] estate and you’re trying to and you have
[17:11] subscribers. It’s two different. The
[17:12] algorithm would definitely be confused
[17:14] there. But if it’s a personal brand or
[17:16] something, so like you’ve always kind of
[17:18] talked about the same thing, the channel
[17:19] is aligned.
[17:20] But, now if we use me as a case study,
[17:21] I’m curious.
[17:23] And this kind of is a tangent into
[17:25] short-form in general.
[17:27] Do you think I should start a new
[17:28] channel if I was to start focusing on,
[17:33] let’s say, something like something
[17:34] related daily to the Bible. I’m a Bible
[17:37] nerd, read the Bible all the time,
[17:39] leadership principles from the Bible,
[17:41] the faith principles.
[17:43] And
[17:44] I have a YouTube channel that has over
[17:46] 100,000 subscribers that is my first and
[17:48] last name, Sean Cannell.
[17:50] It is total chaos. Like, it’s what it’s
[17:53] like cooking videos, I interviewed
[17:55] Benji’s daughter, Juliana, went viral,
[17:57] it’s like all over the place.
[17:58] >> Not Bible-related stuff.
[18:00] Those things.
[18:00] >> There’s one or two Bible videos on
[18:02] there, there’s random I vlogged for 60
[18:05] days, it is a lot of things. And it’s,
[18:08] um, you know, 16 years old. Okay, so
[18:11] there’s that channel. Then there’s like
[18:13] my personal Instagram,
[18:15] um, that
[18:17] you know, bio is like I help people grow
[18:20] on YouTube, get my book YouTube Secrets.
[18:22] And I do personal stuff there.
[18:24] And so, the the question then becomes
[18:27] is, um, I don’t want to launch anything
[18:29] new at this exact second, but that what
[18:31] I’m describing is something I will 100%
[18:33] do someday.
[18:35] And
[18:36] my thought would be, would you start
[18:38] like a new feature account if you were
[18:41] me? And if you were to start short-form
[18:44] or long-form, but the the interest
[18:45] Actually, you got me piqued. I would do
[18:46] short-form videos cuz that makes a lot
[18:48] of sense and I think people would take
[18:49] short hits of maybe what does the Bible
[18:51] really say or like something from the
[18:53] Bible, okay.
[18:55] You have a maybe enough context to say,
[18:58] yeah, you could build it up on your
[18:59] personal brand channel, you could go all
[19:02] in on your Sean Cannell, you might want
[19:03] to do something else with that, or would
[19:05] you start a fresh account? And for
[19:06] listeners, it’s also kind of dovetails
[19:08] over to how you see algorithms and how
[19:11] algorithms learn now
[19:13] if they’ve got baggage from the past
[19:15] versus fresh accounts.
[19:16] >> Uh I’m not anybody who works at YouTube.
[19:19] I know and I happen to be in a Discord
[19:21] with the people who work on the
[19:23] algorithm, but I don’t have access to
[19:25] that like what
[19:27] and how that works exactly.
[19:29] From everything you’ve just told me, it
[19:31] would be a new channel 100%.
[19:32] >> And it And it would be like a new
[19:33] Instagram account.
[19:34] >> account.
[19:35] >> new YouTube channel.
[19:35] >> Correct. You can reference this new
[19:37] account on your existing platforms,
[19:39] right? For those who within that group
[19:41] are interested in that. And I think
[19:42] that’s the way to go about it. The major
[19:45] thing to think about here is from the
[19:47] audience’s perspective and how like you
[19:50] can just replace the word algorithm with
[19:51] audience. Would the audience be confused
[19:53] if you talked about all these kinds of
[19:55] things, especially when it comes to
[19:57] growth?
[19:58] You can’t expect a person to go in and
[20:00] start to like read your history and look
[20:01] at everything, right? They’re just
[20:03] seeing what’s popping up now.
[20:04] >> Yep.
[20:05] >> And so a new channel, Sean Cannell
[20:07] Faith,
[20:07] >> Yeah.
[20:08] >> new video every day, I’m going to And
[20:10] And for 30 days, I’m going to pull out a
[20:13] verse in the Bible and I’m going to ask
[20:15] a random person on the street what they
[20:16] think that means.
[20:17] >> Yep. Oh, yeah.
[20:19] >> Right?
[20:20] Boom. You have 30 days of content, you
[20:21] have this interaction, it’s different,
[20:23] we’re getting you to help a person or
[20:26] the audience understand maybe or how to
[20:28] interpret these things, and then you can
[20:30] relate it to something personal if you’d
[20:31] like.
[20:32] >> Yeah.
[20:32] >> That’s how I’d go about it.
[20:34] >> Yeah, that’s a genius idea. Now,
[20:36] on my Sean Cannell channel, there’s
[20:38] probably there’d be subscribers that are
[20:40] disengaged, there’d be subscribers that
[20:42] actually would be interested in that cuz
[20:44] they did just subscribe to me and they
[20:45] would either unsubscribe or not, but
[20:47] there also is a lot of confusion. So,
[20:49] even if you replace algorithm with the
[20:50] word audience,
[20:51] I feel like in some cases, there’s
[20:53] almost this argument like subscribers
[20:54] don’t matter. They almost become like
[20:56] inactive. And And then I guess my point
[20:58] is if you wanted to leverage that asset,
[21:01] like as that sits there, I sometimes
[21:03] wrestle with and I think this is the
[21:04] exact thing people feel,
[21:07] even if it’s 300 subscribers or 300,000,
[21:10] I’ve already posted hundreds of videos.
[21:11] It’s already a personal brand channel.
[21:13] And if I just push it hard, do I unlist
[21:16] videos and pivot that channel to
[21:17] leverage that as an asset to build from,
[21:19] or would you still say start fresh?
[21:21] >> I would still say start fresh. I I
[21:22] wouldn’t do anything with older videos
[21:24] and trying to remove things to kind of
[21:26] like change
[21:27] the perception in most cases. I mean,
[21:29] there’s going to be edge cases and maybe
[21:33] opportunities to do that in some some
[21:34] cases, but in general, I think not only
[21:37] for the audience and the algorithm, but
[21:38] for you.
[21:39] >> Yep.
[21:40] >> Having a separate channel where you know
[21:41] these kinds of content exists,
[21:44] structured videos about this particular
[21:46] topic, it’s just going to help wrap your
[21:48] head around where that goes and then
[21:51] silo that in terms of production and all
[21:53] those kinds of things.
[21:54] >> Okay, I really want to get into some
[21:55] tactics still, and there’s so many
[21:57] already, but continuing on that a little
[21:59] bit with people starting second
[22:01] channels,
[22:02] this might be news to you. I’m just
[22:03] curious your take.
[22:05] I caught that Gary V was doing some kind
[22:08] of a talk, and then they screenshotted
[22:10] some B-roll, and he talked about there’s
[22:12] a reason why we started Gary V Wine on
[22:14] Instagram and Gary V Jets, as in the
[22:17] football team. And he started these
[22:19] niche accounts even at the expansion of
[22:21] his personal brand. Do you think that’s
[22:22] an extension of
[22:25] what you’re describing here to build up
[22:26] like fandoms or audiences around niches?
[22:28] >> Potentially. Gary is an anomaly.
[22:30] >> Yeah.
[22:31] >> I went into his office a couple of years
[22:32] ago and I saw like 40 people who manage
[22:36] his social media accounts. So
[22:37] >> So there you go.
[22:38] >> You know, you see how many people are
[22:39] working behind the scenes there and
[22:40] you’re like, oh, he’s not actually the
[22:42] one doing all of this. So he
[22:43] >> He can cast the vision, but then he puts
[22:45] somebody on it, lets them go through
[22:46] footage all day long, do their full-time
[22:47] job.
[22:48] >> like to try to attempt to do a
[22:50] percentage of what he does, which is
[22:52] actually not just him, is
[22:54] you’re going to drive yourself nuts.
[22:56] So I would focus on one thing at a time,
[22:57] but to your point, creating separate
[23:00] siloed
[23:01] platforms for different audiences or
[23:04] different messages may make sense, but I
[23:06] think
[23:08] I would only worry about that after
[23:09] figuring out one.
[23:11] >> Yeah.
[23:11] >> And you might not even need the others.
[23:12] >> And would you when we first talked, when
[23:15] I first heard about this Shorts Pocket
[23:17] Monster channel, you said you shot this
[23:20] all by yourself, edited it all by
[23:21] yourself, you were a one-man team.
[23:23] >> Still.
[23:24] >> And that’s still true.
[23:25] >> Still true.
[23:26] Only me. That’s important for me for a
[23:28] couple of reasons. One, to continue to
[23:30] be able to share an example of somebody
[23:32] who’s busy and who is, you know,
[23:33] managing all this stuff and has a
[23:34] family. It’s like I’m still able to find
[23:36] time to do it. And this is why
[23:38] optimizing the production of it was
[23:40] really important to me because I don’t
[23:41] have a lot of time.
[23:42] >> Yeah.
[23:42] >> Yet I was still able to make it happen
[23:44] and I’ll get to a point 600 episodes
[23:45] later where I’ve kept up daily. And I do
[23:47] batch process, that helps me too.
[23:49] >> Well, hang on. Hang on. Hang on. Hang
[23:50] on. And now do you
[23:52] take that final export and you’re
[23:54] personally posting it on all those
[23:56] platforms?
[23:56] >> Correct.
[23:57] >> does that take?
[23:58] >> Not very long.
[23:59] Very quick. I’ve gotten it down to 2
[24:01] minutes.
[24:02] >> And you upload it to Snapchat and title
[24:04] it and you upload it to YouTube Shorts
[24:05] and title it and upload it to Instagram
[24:07] and do the captions.
[24:08] >> Like I wish I could just show you.
[24:09] >> Do you just do it on your phone?
[24:11] >> Uh I do it on my laptop.
[24:13] >> Okay.
[24:13] >> I edit on my laptop. I use ScreenFlow
[24:15] just cuz it’s it All these editing tools
[24:17] eventually get you to the same result.
[24:19] It’s just what works for you. Does it
[24:20] look clean? Does it, yeah, whatever. So,
[24:23] I have my library of sound effects, my
[24:25] library of of GIFs that I use. I have
[24:27] the jingle with the text that pops up in
[24:30] a master template that I just copy and
[24:32] paste into the new one. I have the
[24:34] structure down. It’s kind of the same
[24:35] thing repeated every day. But, that’s
[24:37] what people want.
[24:38] >> Totally.
[24:39] And so then
[24:41] so total workflow, now that you know and
[24:44] you’ve built momentum and it’s actually
[24:46] insane. The headline of like
[24:48] solo
[24:49] busy dad business owner builds,
[24:53] you know, 12 million view a day channel.
[24:56] >> 40-year-old opening cardboard with hard
[24:58] work.
[24:59] >> 40-year-old opening pieces of cardboard
[25:01] with no AI,
[25:04] >> None.
[25:04] >> no help,
[25:05] and a simple phone and laptop,
[25:08] um
[25:08] >> and a passion and a dream.
[25:09] >> and passion and a dream, and grit and a
[25:12] and the hustle
[25:14] and the love builds channel. So, it’s
[25:17] kind of inspiring and it I mean, it
[25:18] proves it done like for anybody who
[25:20] said, you know, I’m too busy to start a
[25:22] YouTube channel. I’m too busy to do so
[25:23] social media. You are really are It
[25:25] actually is inspiring to hear your
[25:26] story. I can see why you’re doing that.
[25:27] Like, you’re finding a way to do it.
[25:28] >> Yeah, I just interpret when a person
[25:30] says, “I’m too busy to do this.” is it’s
[25:32] just not a priority for you.
[25:33] >> Sure.
[25:34] >> That’s it. That’s really what that
[25:36] means.
[25:36] >> Yep.
[25:36] >> How can you make it a priority?
[25:38] How can you get yourself to get off your
[25:41] butt
[25:42] and just do it?
[25:43] >> Total time every day it takes then right
[25:45] now to do your
[25:45] >> 12 minutes.
[25:46] >> Total time for the whole No, the whole
[25:47] show?
[25:48] >> Oh, uh 20 minutes cuz I’ll open a pack,
[25:49] right?
[25:50] >> And hitting it on every platform.
[25:51] >> And hitting it on on every platform.
[25:53] >> It takes a total 20 minute turnaround to
[25:54] do your daily show that’s getting 12
[25:56] million views a day.
[25:57] >> Before I came here to Social Media
[25:58] Marketing World, I recorded three
[26:00] episodes because I’m going to be gone
[26:01] for I was gone from home for 3 days, or
[26:03] I am gone home from home for 3 days, and
[26:05] I just scheduled them. So, they’re all
[26:06] they’re all ready to go. They’re going
[26:07] to go up every platform every platform
[26:09] 8:30 p.m. Pacific.
[26:10] >> Oh my goodness. If you’ve been feeling
[26:12] stuck on YouTube or you wish you were
[26:14] getting results faster, I recommend
[26:16] checking out viralvideocoach.com.
[26:19] You know, years ago in my life, I was
[26:20] experiencing chronic pain in both arms.
[26:23] It was up to a level 10. It was so
[26:25] frustrating. My hope was actually going
[26:28] down, and I ran into a bunch of dead
[26:30] ends. I bought some books on it. I
[26:31] didn’t actually read them. I’m sure the
[26:33] books were good. I bought some online
[26:34] courses, and again, did about half, but
[26:37] still found my stuff unable to fully
[26:40] solve the pain. But then everything
[26:42] changed when I hired a specialist. And
[26:44] that really is what viralvideocoach.com
[26:47] is. We have a coaching program here at
[26:49] Think Media that will give you the
[26:50] accountability and the support and the
[26:53] feedback so that you can see the things
[26:55] that you can’t see, the opportunities on
[26:57] your channel, fixing what’s broken. And
[26:59] whether you want to start and accelerate
[27:02] or whether you’re an expert and a
[27:04] business owner that wants more leads and
[27:05] customers and just wants the shortcut to
[27:07] doing YouTube right. So just go to
[27:10] viralvideo.com,
[27:12] fill out a short form, and then we’ll
[27:13] walk you through all of the next steps.
[27:16] There’s a link in the show notes, you
[27:17] could use that as well. And with that,
[27:19] let’s dive back into the podcast. So
[27:21] okay, I mean there’s a lot of that the
[27:23] systems you’re breaking down, the
[27:25] simplicity, the time it takes to get
[27:27] there. It’s cool to start and tweak it
[27:29] in. I want to hear now then
[27:31] uh tactics for anybody that wants to get
[27:34] views on shorts, any platform, maybe the
[27:37] nuances of different platforms. And you
[27:38] recently did a 30-day challenge and you
[27:40] did a 14-day challenge
[27:42] for short form.
[27:44] Uh you could take this however you want
[27:45] to start it and I just want to pull it
[27:46] apart, but like what what is working?
[27:48] What are the tactics for getting views
[27:51] with YouTube shorts and short form
[27:52] videos right now?
[27:53] >> Uh hook is everything.
[27:54] >> Okay.
[27:55] >> I mean it’s the most important thing.
[27:56] And with the students of mine we had
[27:58] thousands
[27:59] >> hook?
[28:01] >> Attention-grabbing moment.
[28:03] >> Cuz it’s not just what you say. It’s not
[28:05] like a hook is necessarily a sentence,
[28:06] although it’s part of it.
[28:07] >> could be what you see or what’s
[28:09] happening or some interesting kind of
[28:11] part of the middle of the story that
[28:12] then you kind of go, “Well, here’s how I
[28:14] got here.” Right? You share those
[28:16] moments that are interesting up front
[28:17] because people are literally flipping
[28:20] and instantly moving on until they find
[28:21] something that captures their attention.
[28:23] >> What have you learned that makes a great
[28:24] hook?
[28:24] >> Uh curiosity,
[28:26] visuals, right? I had a friend of mine
[28:28] who was opening packs two of Pokémon in
[28:30] in his own way. And he was just starting
[28:32] by showing the pack and talking
[28:36] and then opening it. And it took him
[28:37] like 12 seconds to get to the point
[28:39] where he was opening the pack, which is
[28:40] what we all want to see. But we said,
[28:43] “Well, what can you include visually up
[28:45] front that would stop people and then
[28:48] give you permission to now talk for 12
[28:49] seconds and then open the pack. Well, he
[28:52] started filming himself going to Target
[28:55] and every video starts with him pulling
[28:57] something off the rack.
[28:59] And now that very relatable moment, the
[29:01] thing that we all hope to see at Target,
[29:03] that pack coming off, becomes the start
[29:05] and he uses a voiceover. The voiceover
[29:08] is a very big
[29:09] uh tool that we could use to fine-tune
[29:12] and craft that story and insert a hook
[29:14] after the fact.
[29:15] >> You’re a big fan of voiceovers. That
[29:17] show is a voiceover.
[29:18] >> That show is a
[29:18] >> That you do.
[29:19] >> entirely a voice voiceover.
[29:21] Um all my long-form videos, much of the
[29:23] video is voiceover. It’s like voice in
[29:24] my head, kind of Dexter style. Less
[29:27] bloody, but yeah.
[29:28] Uh
[29:29] and that is great.
[29:30] >> Different target audience.
[29:31] >> Different target audience, yes. That
[29:33] allows us to craft the story after
[29:36] everything’s captured. On the long-form,
[29:37] which I know is going to be a separate
[29:38] topic or discussion, you know, we
[29:40] capture hundreds of hours of content
[29:42] across multiple cameras, right?
[29:44] Then it’s about pulling out those best
[29:46] moments and putting them into a story.
[29:48] The voiceover becomes the glue
[29:49] >> Yeah.
[29:50] >> between that. So it’s less vlog and more
[29:53] you’re with me here and you get a voice
[29:55] inside my head. With the voice inside my
[29:57] head. Anyway, going back to shorts,
[29:59] the hook, right? So practice the hook
[30:01] every day until you get that framework
[30:03] and structure that is repeatable because
[30:05] that is when a person will start now
[30:07] start to follow because they follow not
[30:09] because they liked the video. I think
[30:10] there’s a big confusion here. A lot of
[30:12] people go, “Hey, if you liked the video,
[30:14] please follow and subscribe.” It’s like
[30:16] that’s what a like is for. People follow
[30:18] a video because they want to know what’s
[30:19] coming next or they want the same thing
[30:21] that’s going to happen tomorrow. And
[30:22] this is why daily is important, too. I
[30:25] love shorts because it’s to me like
[30:27] fishing. I love fishing. I love to go
[30:29] fishing.
[30:30] Imagine going fishing, you put the
[30:32] perfect bait on the perfect hook and you
[30:34] cast the perfect cast in the perfect
[30:36] conditions with a perfect retrieve and
[30:38] then you don’t get a fish, which is
[30:39] pretty often. What do you do? You pack
[30:41] it up after that one video? Then cast
[30:43] again. You cast over here. You maybe try
[30:45] a faster retrieve, a slower retrieve.
[30:47] You never know that next cast could be
[30:49] the lunker, right?
[30:51] >> Yeah.
[30:51] >> And that is what is so fun to me about
[30:53] short-form video. Every day is a new
[30:55] cast to potentially catch the big one.
[30:58] And then eventually you in fishing, for
[31:00] example, you learn the pattern. Oh my
[31:01] gosh, they’re biting the uh purple
[31:04] margarita colored Robo Worm today.
[31:07] Okay, I’m going to stick with that here
[31:08] because that’s what’s working in these
[31:09] conditions. And then you just
[31:11] like you’re just crushing it.
[31:12] >> Yeah, okay. So, do you have any favorite
[31:15] business examples or just of of hooks
[31:19] um that could inspire listeners?
[31:21] >> There’s a guy who in our challenge he
[31:23] he’s a Canva designer.
[31:25] >> Yep.
[31:26] >> Uh Drew, I think is his name. He started
[31:28] a series was like bet you didn’t know
[31:30] you could do this on Canva. And and he
[31:31] also did a little jingle he got inspired
[31:33] by my stuff. And it just starts with him
[31:35] showing bet you didn’t know you could do
[31:36] this on Canva. It takes 2 seconds, which
[31:38] opens up a question like bet you didn’t
[31:40] know what. What do you What are you
[31:41] going to teach me?
[31:41] >> It’s a good That headline is the hook
[31:43] itself. The show name is a hook.
[31:46] >> So,
[31:48] after starting that series in our
[31:50] challenge, he’s getting an average of
[31:52] about 150,000 views per video. Some of
[31:54] them have gotten millions, right? Cuz
[31:56] sometimes you get the lunker. And every
[31:58] video starts the same. You scroll
[32:00] through, it’s just like bet you didn’t
[32:02] bet you didn’t bet you didn’t bet bet
[32:04] bet bet bet It’s the same hook every
[32:06] time.
[32:07] But the education comes after that. And
[32:10] it’s masterful. It’s great. And now he’s
[32:11] getting clients. And now Canva knows who
[32:12] he is. And it’s like all this stuff is
[32:13] happening as a result of that. Right?
[32:15] It’s just removing the complication not
[32:17] just in production and what to film,
[32:20] but for the consumption, it’s easy to
[32:22] know what’s coming. So, therefore you
[32:24] subscribe, especially if you’re in that
[32:25] world and that’s something
[32:27] >> It’s great.
[32:27] >> you want.
[32:28] >> Okay, so what would be the next thing? I
[32:30] mean, is it what comes after the hook or
[32:31] is there other tactics for crafting
[32:34] >> Yeah, I mean, there’s a there’s a lot of
[32:36] you know, adding visuals when it makes
[32:38] sense, right? Not going overboard, sound
[32:39] effects, and little like
[32:41] pop like when I put a price on the
[32:43] screen, it goes
[32:44] right?
[32:45] >> Yeah.
[32:45] >> And then I’ve built this bank of like
[32:47] sounds that people recognize, and they
[32:48] didn’t come right away, right? I’ve
[32:49] slowly added over time. I’ve I’ve just
[32:52] continued to refine
[32:54] daily.
[32:54] >> If your videos take you
[32:56] 20 minutes to edit, you put the price of
[32:59] every single card you show.
[33:00] >> Uh not always.
[33:02] >> On a more vintage pack that’s slower to
[33:05] open, yes.
[33:06] >> Okay, yeah, those are the ones I was
[33:07] thinking of.
[33:07] >> But if I’m opening one that’s like 4, the last one, yeah.
[33:11] >> So, does that take a little bit longer?
[33:12] You have to use some sort of way to
[33:13] source the info?
[33:14] >> an app, and it just I mean, I even This
[33:17] is an app called Collector where you can
[33:19] kind of track your collection and stuff.
[33:21] Um I’m friends with the founder, and I
[33:23] was like, “Hey, can you build uh a
[33:25] screenshot feature for me that you can
[33:27] like just take the price and put it on
[33:29] the screen? I think a lot of other
[33:30] creators and myself would enjoy that.”
[33:31] >> Nice.
[33:32] >> They built that in 2 days, and it’s like
[33:33] what I use now. It’s just like
[33:35] >> That’s so good. That’s cool. That’s like
[33:36] a detail working on your workflow to get
[33:38] an element dialed in.
[33:39] >> Yeah.
[33:40] >> Okay, if you describe one of your
[33:42] shorts, and you were to just say, or
[33:44] maybe you could say, “What am I
[33:45] missing?”
[33:46] What we’re talking about here for those
[33:47] who haven’t watched the channel, and
[33:48] they should just to even get inspired
[33:50] for their own niche, their own content.
[33:52] But you’ve got a music jingle.
[33:55] Does music play under in it it?
[33:57] >> Uh it does. And I have
[33:58] three songs that I use every time. One
[34:00] is more of like
[34:01] >> stickiness to that.
[34:02] >> to it, yep.
[34:03] >> Not just a jingle, but there’s music.
[34:05] >> There’s sound effects.
[34:06] >> Sound effects.
[34:06] >> There’s visuals if when necessary, what
[34:09] I would see, the price. Price pops up on
[34:11] a certain card. What other visuals or
[34:13] words, I’m not sure.
[34:14] >> will also So, I again, I learned this
[34:16] over time. It’s like, “Okay, well, I’ll
[34:17] talk about what I hope to see, right?”
[34:19] There’s often like a very expensive card
[34:21] that I hope we get, right? Again, that
[34:23] opens that loop.
[34:25] I then learned to show that card so that
[34:27] people can see it and look out for it at
[34:29] the end. So, in the middle, when I’m
[34:30] like, “Oh, I hope we get the Mega
[34:32] Charizard.” or whatever.
[34:33] >> Which is a screen grab from somewhere
[34:34] else of the card you’re hoping for.
[34:36] >> Yes, from Collector now.
[34:38] But, yes, I mean, I would just pull that
[34:39] from eBay or
[34:41] >> that cuts in.
[34:42] >> That cuts in, then it swoops out, and I
[34:43] have
[34:44] >> Yeah.
[34:45] >> like little swooping noises that I
[34:46] started to add, and all this kind of
[34:47] stuff. Um
[34:48] eventually, one day I randomly added
[34:50] this meme sound from a Vine long time
[34:53] ago, where a guy was doing this Who’s
[34:56] That [clears throat] Pokémon game, you
[34:56] know, if you’ve ever watched Pokémon,
[34:58] they show like a silhouette of a
[34:59] Pokémon, and then you have to guess who
[35:00] it is. There’s a There’s a meme from a
[35:02] 5-second Vine of a Clefairy [snorts]
[35:05] being shown, but the guy goes, “It’s
[35:07] Pikachu!” It’s like really loud and
[35:09] obnoxious, and it’s funny.
[35:11] Um I I added that when I pulled a
[35:13] Pikachu one day.
[35:14] And then, the next day people were like,
[35:16] “You should always do that.” Like the
[35:18] commenters. They’re like, “Where’s the
[35:19] It’s Pikachu?” So, I just now
[35:22] I add that sound effect whenever I pull
[35:24] a Pikachu. And when I forget to do it,
[35:26] people get upset. They get pissed off.
[35:28] >> Wow.
[35:29] >> Because they expect that, right? When I
[35:31] change the song to something completely
[35:33] random one day, they notice that.
[35:35] >> Yeah, why is the song different?
[35:36] >> the song Like some other things happened
[35:37] like over time. This is This is going to
[35:39] be really important for those who might
[35:40] be a little scared to do this and put
[35:41] themselves out there. So, the the camera
[35:43] is really close to my hands, right? Cuz
[35:45] I’m opening these packs, which means you
[35:47] can see my fingers.
[35:48] >> Yeah.
[35:48] >> And I have very weird, strange-looking
[35:50] thumbs. They’re club thumbs. They’re
[35:52] like I just saw your eyes go down real
[35:53] quick.
[35:54] >> curious. I was checking them out, yeah.
[35:55] >> Uh there I call them Megan Fox thumbs
[35:57] cuz they look a little That That makes
[35:58] me feel better. I call them Nintendo
[35:59] thumbs as well cuz I’m like, “Oh, they
[36:02] It’s from all the gaming.” No, they’re
[36:03] just club thumbs. It’s a thing.
[36:04] >> Okay.
[36:04] >> Um they’re short and kind of fat.
[36:06] >> Okay.
[36:07] >> And then, in the beginning days of this
[36:09] video series,
[36:10] people started making fun of them.
[36:11] >> Hm.
[36:12] >> They’re like, “Oh, this guy’s thumbs are
[36:13] nasty.” Puke emoji. And I was like, oh,
[36:15] like wanting to hide, right? Um but I
[36:17] was like, “You know what?
[36:20] I want to embrace this cuz this is me.”
[36:21] That like, “Great, you’re pointing out
[36:23] something that’s uniquely me. I’m going
[36:24] to I’m going to lean into that.”
[36:25] >> Yeah.
[36:26] >> So, I literally call them out one day
[36:27] and I say, “Yeah, I know I got nasty
[36:29] thumbs. They’re kind of like Diglett
[36:30] thumbs.” Diglett is a Pokémon that kind
[36:33] of looks like my thumbs.
[36:34] >> Okay.
[36:36] >> Fast forward to today, when I go to a
[36:38] card convention, I am signing Diglett
[36:40] cards all day long.
[36:43] >> It’s like a common
[36:45] uh Pokémon that nobody really cares
[36:46] about, but now when they see a Diglett
[36:48] card in a pack, they think of me.
[36:49] >> Yeah. That’s deep.
[36:50] >> Um and like people are you should tattoo
[36:53] Diglett on your thumb and it’s just
[36:54] like, you know, one time I was at an
[36:56] event and they’re like, “Wait, are you
[36:57] the should I open it guy?” That’s what
[36:59] I’m called now. The I’m not even Deep
[37:00] Pocket Monster. I’m like, “You’re the
[37:01] should I open it guy?” And they’re like,
[37:03] “Let me see your thumbs.”
[37:05] >> To to verify.
[37:06] >> Yeah. To verify. [laughter]
[37:08] >> That’s amazing. So, I mean, there’s so
[37:11] much there like I I would recommend
[37:13] listeners that are new to you uh your
[37:16] book Superfans
[37:17] >> Thank you. Yeah.
[37:18] >> because
[37:19] there’s so much genius that you do,
[37:22] things you’ve learned in terms of
[37:23] community building. What would you
[37:25] almost call those? You’d almost call
[37:26] them like uh lore.
[37:27] >> It’s uh it’s it’s part of the culture of
[37:30] our brand, right?
[37:31] >> of your brand.
[37:32] >> the brand language.
[37:33] >> Brand language moments, audio. And what
[37:35] I want people to hear and I don’t know
[37:36] if I’m missing anything, but it’s like
[37:39] over time that and that’s another layer.
[37:42] It’s not just sound effects, jingle,
[37:44] music, the editing, sometimes some other
[37:46] things, but you’re making the short-form
[37:48] show
[37:49] also have reoccurring themes or
[37:52] reoccurring elements.
[37:54] >> Characters, like the thumb.
[37:55] >> your thumb becomes a character.
[37:56] >> Right. Exactly.
[37:57] >> Yeah.
[37:57] >> Exactly. Um it is it is amazing to see
[38:00] what has happened and
[38:02] the elements and principles of
[38:03] storytelling still mattering here. The
[38:05] other thing that uh
[38:08] there’s so much to unpack with just the
[38:09] six 60-second short, right? Um
[38:13] >> Are they always 60 seconds or less?
[38:14] >> sometimes they’re longer. In fact, they
[38:16] they
[38:16] >> Cuz platforms allow you to go 90
[38:17] seconds.
[38:18] >> 3 minutes now.
[38:20] 3 everywhere now. Yeah.
[38:22] >> It’s
[38:24] >> hour, but Instagram’s three.
[38:26] >> Yeah, just all three. Yeah. So I mean
[38:27] I’ve done 90 seconds, 120 seconds
[38:30] sometimes if there’s more packs to open,
[38:31] but generally speaking it’s 60 to 90
[38:33] seconds.
[38:34] >> Yeah.
[38:34] >> Um, I’ve I then started a sub-series
[38:37] within this series.
[38:38] >> Okay.
[38:39] >> So on Sunday, I have what’s called
[38:42] Burning Shadows Sunday. Burning Shadows
[38:44] is a
[38:44] is a set of Pokémon from 2017 it was
[38:47] released. It has like the worst pull
[38:48] rates.
[38:49] >> Okay.
[38:50] >> And it has a particular Charizard, a
[38:52] rainbow rare Charizard in that that is
[38:54] very hard to pull. And I got inspired by
[38:56] a creator from a long time ago who did
[38:57] the same challenge but not in short
[38:59] form. It was like at the end of every
[39:00] video he would try to open one pack to
[39:02] find this Charizard.
[39:02] >> How much does one of these packs cost?
[39:04] >> Uh, like 20 bucks.
[39:05] >> Okay.
[39:06] >> Um,
[39:06] >> That’s expensive though so you
[39:07] >> It’s expensive in the world of Pokémon,
[39:08] yeah, but everything
[39:09] >> 80 a month for so 20 * 4?
[39:14] >> Well, I’m opening like four to six packs
[39:15] per week.
[39:16] >> Of the black guy though?
[39:17] >> Of of the uh, the Burning Shadows guy.
[39:19] >> Burning Shadows people.
[39:20] >> Uh,
[39:21] so
[39:23] it is now I’m on pack 416
[39:27] 16
[39:28] >> Of Burning Shadows.
[39:30] >> without yet having found this Charizard.
[39:32] >> Sure.
[39:33] >> Every Sunday.
[39:34] >> But how rare is the Charizard? Super
[39:35] rare. You might be doing this for 10
[39:36] years.
[39:36] >> That’s what a lot of people may never
[39:38] pull it. But I’m doing exactly what I
[39:39] want to do. I’m building anticipation.
[39:41] >> Yeah, I’m
[39:42] here.
[39:43] I need to know
[39:44] >> It’s a disappoint People have renamed it
[39:45] Burning Wallet Sunday.
[39:47] >> Yeah.
[39:47] >> They say it’s never going to happen.
[39:50] >> Like 400 bucks. It’s like 900. I could
[39:52] have bought 20 of them by now.
[39:53] >> Interesting.
[39:54] >> Right? And yes, I know I have a little
[39:55] advantage because I have access to these
[39:57] cards and I can pay for them, but again
[39:58] the whole point here being a sub-series
[40:00] >> Yeah.
[40:01] >> that people can expect on Sunday that I
[40:04] got to tune in to my show. Like hey
[40:05] honey, my show’s on.
[40:06] >> Yeah.
[40:06] >> Right? I literally get that comment. My
[40:08] show is on.
[40:08] >> So good.
[40:09] >> Um, the other thing about this and and
[40:11] and something in a brand and in
[40:13] storytelling is you have a rival.
[40:14] >> Yes. have
[40:15] >> rival.
[40:16] >> Okay, hang on. So I’ve also heard like
[40:18] there’s a good book from Patrick Bet
[40:19] David of called Choose Your Enemies
[40:21] Wisely. And it’s been said in marketing
[40:23] that you should have an enemy. Is that
[40:25] the same as a rival?
[40:26] >> Uh a rival is maybe a friendlier enemy.
[40:29] Right? Where with a rival you might have
[40:31] beef with
[40:32] with a
[40:33] >> This is different then. This is a
[40:34] different concept than what I’m saying.
[40:35] >> Yes.
[40:35] >> A marketing enemy or the thing that
[40:37] you’re against is not the same thing.
[40:39] >> enemy is AI, right? So, that’s your
[40:40] positioning.
[40:41] >> When I watched one one of your recent
[40:42] long form videos which recommend people
[40:44] subscribe and and and that’ll be coming
[40:46] out on the channel as well and we’ll
[40:48] have a whole separate conversation. But
[40:49] I feel like your rival is your son.
[40:51] >> Uh he has become a rival, yes, on that,
[40:53] right? Cuz he’s he’s quote-unquote stole
[40:56] uh Charizard from me and we’re just go
[40:57] passing it back and forth.
[40:59] Uh another rival on the long form
[41:00] channel is time.
[41:01] And we personified time by buying a
[41:03] kitchen timer and putting googly eyes on
[41:05] it and naming it Steve.
[41:06] >> Yes.
[41:07] >> Why Steve? Because that’s kind of a name
[41:08] you can get angry at, right? Steve. It
[41:10] has that like sting on it. Sorry to
[41:12] Steves out there.
[41:13] >> this character around with you.
[41:14] >> Right. Yeah. And now we have merch. But
[41:16] Steve merch.
[41:17] We sold out in an experiment 500 plushy
[41:20] Steves, which again is just a soft
[41:22] version of a kitchen timer with googly
[41:24] eyes and eyebrows.
[41:25] >> What time did you set since they were
[41:27] printed all the time?
[41:28] >> 2:31, which is 151 minutes, which is a
[41:30] callback to our
[41:32] finding 151 Pokémon challenge.
[41:34] >> Okay.
[41:34] >> They sold out in 2 minutes.
[41:36] >> Yeah.
[41:36] >> The plushy Steves.
[41:37] >> Crazy.
[41:38] >> Another part of the brain culture in the
[41:40] in the character. Anyway, on the short
[41:41] form channel I have a rival, which is
[41:43] sort of like a friendly enemy. Um where
[41:45] with an enemy you might have beef, a
[41:47] rival you might have pork. And that’s
[41:49] what we call it, my buddy Alex and I.
[41:51] We kind of go back and forth and we kind
[41:53] of dig at each other in our own cuz he
[41:54] does a daily channel as well.
[41:56] >> So, you’re just you’re any reference to
[41:58] him would be like an insider reference.
[41:59] He’s not actually on the channel.
[42:01] >> He’s not on the channel at all. No, but
[42:02] the reason why we have this
[42:04] quote-unquote pork, if you want to call
[42:05] it that, is there is a set of Pokémon
[42:07] out there called uh team up. And in this
[42:10] there is a very, very expensive card
[42:12] called Latios Latias that they these two
[42:14] Pokémon make like a heart shape. So,
[42:16] we’ve He’s He’s named this card the
[42:18] lovebirds card, right? That’s just like
[42:19] the nickname for it. Um and he’s like,
[42:22] “I’m going to get it first.” And I was
[42:23] like, “No, I’m going to get it first.”
[42:25] Well, I ended up getting it first, and
[42:26] he still has yet to get it. So, every
[42:28] time I reference anything related to
[42:30] that set or this card or those Pokémon,
[42:32] I I do a little dig at him. I put a
[42:34] screenshot of his face crying, or I just
[42:36] kind of mention it, and then he has now
[42:39] called me deep Diglett monster and talks
[42:42] about my thumbs in a kind of kind of
[42:45] not a really nasty way, but like he just
[42:47] Again, we pass it back and forth. And
[42:49] the comment that the the crowd loves it.
[42:51] They love this back They’re like, “I
[42:53] live for this rivalry. It’s like the
[42:55] this is the friendliest rivalry, and I
[42:56] can’t wait to see what the next part is
[42:58] going to be, right?” And we’ve even gone
[43:00] on stage in person together now because
[43:01] of this rivalry. We’ve been invited
[43:03] together to speak and talk and teach
[43:05] about YouTube and shorts, and we talk
[43:07] about our rivalry. And again, we’ll do a
[43:09] little digging and kind of elbowing each
[43:11] other when we’re there kind of thing.
[43:12] It’s just become a friendly rivalry that
[43:15] people can enjoy and another
[43:17] insider thing for people who watch
[43:19] daily, right?
[43:20] >> It’s powerful. I mean, I think I think
[43:22] I don’t know if you’ll love these
[43:23] examples, but I think they they they
[43:25] illustrate I think uh
[43:27] Jake Paul and Logan Paul
[43:29] as controversial as they are have used
[43:32] rivals rivalries against each other to
[43:35] hack
[43:35] >> Casey KSI, right?
[43:37] >> Yeah.
[43:38] >> And then they went together in the
[43:39] prime.
[43:40] >> And then if And then you start thinking
[43:41] about that, you think like
[43:42] you know, uh I’m sure there’s a level of
[43:45] authenticity to it, but they’re also
[43:46] master media people that they sometimes
[43:48] pressure. And And UFC and WWE has
[43:52] thrived off that. That as people start
[43:54] ramping up to a fight, how Yeah, so then
[43:56] there’s that rivalry or even in like
[43:58] maybe Drake versus Kendrick, and any
[44:00] kind of rivalry makes both
[44:03] you know, it gets people invested, it
[44:05] gets people interested.
[44:06] >> A minor detail is that See what I did
[44:10] there? That’s a test. Uh it it is that
[44:12] it doesn’t have to be a rivalry. Just I
[44:14] think the important thing are these
[44:16] the the the the brand language that you
[44:18] create over time that people who are on
[44:20] the inside know about. People on the
[44:22] outside wonder about.
[44:23] >> Interesting.
[44:24] >> It’s just like the secret menu at
[44:25] In-N-Out. If you ever come to the West
[44:26] Coast and you somebody takes you to
[44:28] In-N-Out, they’re going to tell you
[44:29] about the secret menu because they want
[44:31] to be the one to tell you about the
[44:32] secret menu.
[44:33] >> Yes.
[44:33] >> And getting your fries animal style with
[44:35] onions and cheese on it. Like all that
[44:37] kind of stuff. Those things help the
[44:39] brand because people talk about it
[44:41] because they know something that others
[44:42] don’t.
[44:44] Which is a chapter out of Super Fans.
[44:45] Like this whole Pokémon thing is
[44:46] literally a case study for everything
[44:48] that I taught in Super Fans. Super Fans
[44:50] was written before I even got into
[44:52] Pokémon. I’m just I’m just
[44:54] >> And you had already done it, but now
[44:55] you’re doing it like a hundred X. You
[44:56] just keep building on it.
[44:57] >> Yeah.
[44:58] >> It’s powerful. Okay, uh kind of
[45:00] lightning round talking about short
[45:01] form. What’s the biggest mistake most
[45:03] people make that’s killing their views
[45:05] on short form content?
[45:06] >> Uh paying attention to the views too
[45:08] early.
[45:08] >> Mhm.
[45:09] >> You think, “Oh, I’m I’m a failure. This
[45:10] is never going to work.” You have to
[45:12] stick with it. You have to give it time.
[45:14] This is why a 30-to-60-day experiment
[45:16] works really, really well because
[45:18] doesn’t matter what happens to the
[45:19] views. You keep going cuz that is what
[45:21] you can control. You can control the
[45:23] uploads. You can’t often control
[45:26] how those uploads get seen or perceived
[45:27] or how the algorithm treats them, right?
[45:29] And if you base your success on
[45:31] something that you cannot control,
[45:33] I mean, that’s a that’s not a great
[45:35] place to be.
[45:36] Right? So, you can control how much you
[45:38] upload and then give yourself a chance
[45:39] at least to get to the point at which
[45:41] you can then assess whether you want to
[45:42] keep going or not because you’ve stuck
[45:44] with it for that many days. And like I
[45:46] said, day 35
[45:48] is when things took off for me. Um so,
[45:50] just get started. Get out of your own
[45:51] way. And the other thing is over
[45:54] perfecting and trying to make it look
[45:56] really nice, right? It’s like that’s a I
[45:59] need the best camera. I I the perfect
[46:00] editing. I need like the some of the
[46:02] stuff that goes most viral
[46:05] and sees the most discovery or is just
[46:08] the most raw
[46:09] >> It is super raw.
[46:10] For sure.
[46:11] >> There’s a guy
[46:12] uh
[46:13] who had a a channel called Sailing with
[46:15] Phoenix. This guy who worked a corporate
[46:17] job at a tire company quit.
[46:20] And his first video is like I’m I’m
[46:21] quitting my job. I hate this life. I’m
[46:23] going to cash out my 401k and I’m going
[46:25] to buy a sailboat. I don’t even know how
[46:26] to sail and I’m just going to I’m just
[46:28] going to sail to Hawaii.
[46:30] >> And he did that.
[46:31] >> [laughter]
[46:31] >> And he had the whole world watching. He
[46:33] gained 2 million followers in a week
[46:35] >> Yeah.
[46:35] >> cross-platform because day one of
[46:38] sailing to Hawaii with my cat.
[46:42] Day two, his cat’s name Felix.
[46:43] >> Snarla. I mean it the thing too is like
[46:46] uh
[46:47] you know, at some point that’s no longer
[46:49] a shorts tactic. It’s like just an
[46:52] incredible story.
[46:53] >> Correct. Yeah, and everybody was so
[46:55] inspired. They were following him.
[46:56] >> the clearly took the risk and the time
[46:59] and the energy for him to do it. He
[47:00] actually did it.
[47:01] >> But his videos weren’t perfectly
[47:03] produced. Whether you’re kicking rocks
[47:04] or literally having a life-changing
[47:06] moment,
[47:07] that could all be captured in short form
[47:09] and as long as it’s consistent, right?
[47:12] You can’t build a relationship with
[47:13] anybody if you’re not consistent.
[47:14] >> Yeah.
[47:15] >> Uh
[47:16] and you have that courage to show up,
[47:17] then you have at least a chance for
[47:20] things to happen.
[47:21] >> Genius advice. If people want to build a
[47:23] relationship with you,
[47:25] where can they find you? I’ll put links
[47:27] in the description everything.
[47:28] >> cards. You can
[47:29] if we want to start a relationship with
[47:30] me, just
[47:31] uh send me over some Pokémon cards. No,
[47:33] I’m just kidding. Um long walks on the
[47:35] beach. Um Deep Pocket Monster and Short
[47:38] Pocket Monster on YouTube probably the
[47:39] best places to go to literally see a lot
[47:41] of this in action, right? Um and then
[47:44] Pat Flynn on all social media channels.
[47:45] >> Amazing. And Think Media Podcast, like,
[47:48] rate, share, review this one for sure.
[47:51] Subscribe because there’s going to be a
[47:52] future conversation with Pat Flynn all
[47:53] about long form and he crushed it in the
[47:55] short form here. I want to just thank
[47:57] you for being a part of this community.
[47:58] Until next time, my name is Sean
[47:59] Cannell, your guide to building a
[48:01] profitable YouTube channel. Keep
[48:02] crushing it, and we will [music] talk
[48:03] soon.